Topic: Guilds, Corps, Player Goverments

[topher]

So I 've yet to see a discussion on the social aspects of the game.  Will players be able to create different kind of social structures, ie. gangs of mercenaries, corporation of research scientists, etc?

In another game i play you have Corporations and skills associated with running said corp.  You can designate roles and responsibilietes to each member of your corp, from VP to research assistant, etc.  Corps also have a wallet, shared banking, hangers and many other items that are rights protected.

topher

[contingencyplan]

Well, right now, I think morgul's idea is that we have the League and the Terrans as the two major human forces within the game.  Players can align themselves with either faction, or be on their own.  If they're on their own, they can join up with other players in as loose- or tight-knit groups as they choose - e.g., just get together to party and pillage on weekends, or have regular meetings and missions and such with an overall agenda.  The game should allow for both.

In another game i play you have Corporations and skills associated with running said corp. You can designate roles and responsibilietes to each member of your corp, from VP to research assistant, etc. Corps also have a wallet, shared banking, hangers and many other items that are rights protected.

I like this idea - business-centric organizations, rather than military / conquest / kill 'em all-centric. The shared purse is a must for any organization, no matter how big or small.

Something else I would like to see is the ability for player-started groups to rise in prominence, perhaps even [near] to the level of the League or Terrans, depending on how many members they get and how much money they have.  If nothing else, they could take over an entire sector of planets and place them under their control. This allows for a lot more variability in the game landscape, rather than saying that a sector is purely L, T, or Neutral.

~Brian

[Morgul]

contingencyplan's *almost* right about how I see the uinverse.

There's the league, the terrans, and the 'other'. (for humans) The 'Other' is a loose coalition most run by pirates, mobsters, etc. However, anyone can basically walk in, subjigate a couple planets and say, "These planets now make up the United Empire of Asshat Domination, LLC !"

I would like to have a system that formalizes player groups... like having a guild/clan register with us inorder to receive official status... (And some neat options in game.) If they don't get recognised by us, they won't be recognised as an organization in game, or maybe only as a terrorist group or something...

I like the corperations idea. I need to give it more thought, but the concept intrigues me.

--Chris

[topher]

I like the idea of "official" guilds with perks and under the table ones.  That would lead to some interesting politics and interaction.

[BigDan]

Guilds as a whole have there place in game play and lend a sence of comrodery to the game.

Now with this said I feal that there would have to be certain rules set down to govern these groups and there interaction with new players and alow free action in play for the newbie until a said level is reached then alow said groups to recruit said player if so desired.

Then within the group help to train and lead the said recruit in the guilds direction.

But if the newbie declines the offer the guild goes on its mary way leaving the newbie to there own devices.

[contingencyplan]

Something I was thinking of was this: How about we have space racing circuits (yes, plural)? I don't think it would be too difficult to modify the space sim aspect to change how weapons are done and to add race-style controls and equipment.

I was thinking we'd have two arenas of racing: Space, and planetside.  In space, you have to fly your ship through a area of space (I remember one particular one that was done on Star Trek: Voyager in this manner). Naturally, you don't have to be concerned with gravity (in general, though that would make for a very interesting obstacle... ).

Planetside, on the other hand, has you running through a circuit on the ground.  We could either have floating (a la F-Zero) or ground-bound (read: wheeled) vehicles, but either way the drivers have to follow a set terrain-based circuit.

Additionally, I can see two styles of racing - stock ships and modded ships.  With stock ships, you simply take a ship straight out of a qualified vendor's lot and race with it - you can't change out a single component (except to replace a damaged one, and then only with the exact same component).  This emphasizes piloting skill, and leaves the mechanics largely out of it.

Modded ships, however, allow you to modify your ship with whatever components you want.  Want a larger engine?  Buy it and strap it in. Want to have better shields? Stick it in there.  This adds the extra mechanical aspect of it to the racing - you have to know what you're doing (both personally and stat / skill-wise), and you have to be able to get the better set of parts.  Naturally, there shouldn't be one set of end-all parts - different manufacturers have different specs for their parts, so it boils down to taste and particular skill leanings.

In either case, we should have brackets set up, likely based on skill (number of wins) and / or ship capabilities (price of components would likely be a good standard).  We could of course have free races, where anybody is welcome to compete, regardless of skill and ship price.  However, to ensure that newbies don't always get beat out, they should race against others with similar skills and capabilities, so the race is more fair.

We could also have a lot of fun with this, I think - have it be a spectator sport, where people can buy tickets to see the race in person.  Further, we could allow betting on different racers (though we would have to realize the potential for people losing on purpose... perhaps that could be part of racing on the outer edges of the galaxy).

Naturally, the racers themselves get compensated for their wins - either in cash (based on a purse or on the bets placed on them [ref to Star Wars; Knights of the Old Repubilc]), or in parts for their ship (only in modded races, of course).

As far as the circuits themselves, I envision several that could stretch throughout the galaxy, including several planets that are controlled by either the Terrans or the League; in fact, the circuit would likely have several stops from both sides.  If you have enough money, you could buy / build racing stadiums and get it on one of the circuits.  You could even outright start your own circuit with several other stadium owners.

Anyways, was thinking that over, and decided to get my ideas in a post.  What do y'all think?
~Brian

[topher]

I like the idea...to expand on it ...

It would be even cooler if we allowed player organizations to run these events.  They would handle the brackets, entry fees, payouts etc.  The more the player interacts with other players (even in not hostile arenas) the better.  So would these race areas be non-pvp areas?  Or atleast heavily guarded by someone to lower the chances of a player death?

[BigDan]

Hey this is susposed to be as close to realistic as posable rite?

well for newbs make it safe, but as the stakes go up so does the danger.

I see everyone is kinda thinking in the same area as I am.

but again go that step further and alow the players to create there own areas in the galaxy with a builder program built into the game.

When somone builds a place they upload it to the admins , the admins chech it for relivence, bugs ,and theam, then decide where in the universe they want to putt it , with maybe a request coming from the creater of the area.

In this way this universe would be an ever expanding arena and be more along the lines of what is actualy envisioned.

This to would alevieate alot of strain on the builders of the game and can you imagine how much work it is building areas of play in a game , I can , I have Never Winter Nights and It has its own area builder where you can build whole worlds and make it your own game .

I'v built my own world within the game and there are so many newonces within the creation of a world that you have to watch ,such as transitions working as you want them to,and special actions hapening as you put them in but its alot of fun even if it is alot of work.

However I sugest not alowing people to put up there own servers and keeping everything in house , this way the game can be protected against people taking things to far out of the original theme of the game but rather expand on it

[topher]

I;m against the build your own area for a couple of reasons.  The main one is because people will try and make their area as overpowering as possible.  I think once we get a general idea of space design we can automatically create a massive system with the push of a button, the rest is the in game history and information.

[Morgul]

Well, hold on. Here's how it would work:

1) People build a world on thier own time.

2) They submit it, and we test it, try it out, and approve it, if we like it.

So, it's *only* going to show up if we want it to.

--Chris

P.S. We could have contests, and award them something if thier planets get chosen....

[contingencyplan]

I do like the idea of player-submitted content, at least tentatively.  However, going into it with the mindset that it will save time and take some of the load off the devs is a foolish opinion.  We will almost certainly spend as much (if not more) time looking over others' proposals as we would working on our own content.  Also, don't forget that we WILL have to have our own content - we can't just shove everything off to the player community.  

Also, if we allow for players to expand, we should set up some rules (e.g., they have played for X number of months, and they have to sign up with us before they can submit stuff).

~Brian

[topher]

If we limited it to just planets and just the terrain/structures i would be more accepting of it.  I was just thinking they got their own little chunk of space and good npc it, resource it, and do all of that.  Plus, it's not like every joe can just make a planet/terrain, there is a lot ot that.

[contingencyplan]

Well, agreed, I don't think we should have players just be put in godlike charge of a specific area (i.e., they create the galaxy, system, planets, NPCs, buildings, etc.).  However, having players model a building or a planet or whatnot and submit it sounds like it might be a good idea.  Like I said, though, my support is tentative.  I fully expect we'd have every modder wannabe emailing us with their "OMG THIS IS SO KOOL!!!" yet sucky-ass alien critter, then getting all pissed off when we say "We appreciate the offer, but we're declining your work for now" (which they read as "WE THINK YOU SUCK!!!"), so they go complain on their blogs and send nasty emails to all their friends about us and write bad reviews on different gaming websites...  Sorry, was that sarcasm a touch bitter?

Anyways.  That's why I say if we do this, we should have a full-blown submission system (in-game, mind you) in place that will check whether the modder has been approved to submit their work.  If they haven't, then they are (kindly) rejected. We then put a notice on the website that says "Any player-submitted content sent to any of our email addresses will be deleted unopened."  This will hopefully let the people who can both submit mature work and can accept our decision (whether we choose to accept it or not) maturely submit good work that we can use, while keeping the immature from overloading us with poor submissions and bad attitudes.

~Brian

[topher]

Along those lines to we would have notify the user that all submissions become our property and we own them, erm it, forever.

[contingencyplan]

Agreed.  However, we should have some sort of compensation in place, preferably in-game stuff (instead of having to deal with money for submissions).  Maybe we could give them in-game credits, or a special item, or perhaps a free month's subscription for a good submission... or give them their choice. The special item sounds cool, though.

*sigh* Then we have to deal with people saying "I got this much for my submission, and this guy got so much more!  WTH?!"  and the like...  stupid planet envy... :-P

Still, having the ability for players to add new content would possibly be worth it.  But we'd have to try it on a small scale first, perhaps as a feature to be beta-tested AFTER we release the game.

[Morgul]

Something I was thinking of was this: How about we have space racing circuits (yes, plural)? I don't think it would be too difficult to modify the space sim aspect to change how weapons are done and to add race-style controls and equipment.[...]

Ok, I've been thinking about this. I really really like the idea, and I've decided to split it up into the following 'classes'.

Stock Class A - This is a purely stock race. All the ships are the same type (aka, everyone is racing an Ares), and *everything* is stock on it. This would be the cheapest way to get into racing. Now, there is a difference that's allowed - the year of manufacturing. (Since older models might not come with some of the nifty new toys later models come with in the standard package. Think cars.) In order to make sure that the older ones stay competative, you can only have one that's 3 years older than the newest model, and you will be allowed to choose to modify it to fit the stock of the latest model. (This is the only class where the ships still have to retain thier orriginal weapon systems. They cannot be used, ofcourse.)

Stock Class B - This is going to be *my* favorite racing class. Here's you're alowed to race different types of ships. Everything is relitively stock, with a few things that can be modified. Since different ships are going to have different specs, the idea of 'reward mass' is going to be used. Basically, the better off you do, the more mass gets added yo your ship. This way, even if you're ship's uber, after a few races the other will be zipping by you. (There will be a max mass that can be added. We don't want people to never be able to win consistently, but we sure as hell want it to be hard.) If you question this system, look at GT touring races. They use it, and it's some of the most feirce compeition I've ever seen.

Stock Class C Modifides - Here we allow a ton of modification, and use the same weight system. Basically, modify your ship however you want, and we'll just put mass on your ship if you're winning. Pretty simple. (This would be the closest to nascar... just with the mass system.)

Starfire Class A - The Starfire classes of racing are all racing ships specifically designed for racing. (Think forumula 2000, or F1.) All Starfires look the same, but under the hood you're allowed to do quite a bit... The class A is the lower form of racing, where the engines, and parts you're allowed to choose from are less uber than the class B. (No weight system here.)

Starfire Class B - This class is the same as class A, but you're given much more uber systems to put in your ship. These are some fo the fastest racing machines ever designed.

There, that about sums it up. If you notice I didn't mention anything about ground racing. That's a whole nother can of worms.

--Chris

[fehknt]

pshhh.  Personally, I feel that having your very own peice of the game that EVERYONE is playing on is reward enough.  If we like the name, then the name is kept, and then they even get to name things (sort of) (only if it's a decent name)

Perhaps give them some sort of "discoverer's credit" or something that's permanantly attached to what they designed.

OR, give them a unique, highly visible item that thier character can wear to point out that they have contributed to the game, which will make it something of a status thing, and people will want it -- but I don't think that the item actually has to be particularly great, it may even be purely decorative, and can be worn over anything, so that it doesn't ever get not worn simply because they got a better item.

Maybe winners of races could get medals that go along the same idea -- not game-changing, but it's a status symbol that you won this certian race 4 times!  And a monetary reward, of course.  Which, I feel, should be spent on parts _if_ they so desire.

I also agree that skill (based by wins/losses) should auto-bracket you into a race with like skilled players, and you can't get into the lower skill level races.

also -- morgul, I like the differing classes of races.