Messages

41

Precursors / Player Creation

« on: June 16, 2005, 11:14:55 pm »

There's a game system called Alternity that does the perk/flaw stuff.  You get X character points and get to spend them on any combination of raw stats and perks, while a flaw or three can give you a couple extra points.

The key to the system working, I think, is that in a perk/flaw situation, you always lost more than a perk gave you that cost an equivalant amount.  Maybe not much more, but enough to make it count.  The perks/flaws made for a good basis for your character concept.

If the ranges aren't too great that the randomness will cause, then I see no problem -- the main problem is with many large ranges of numbers, then it becomes worth it to re-do your character many times to get good numbers. To vary it to add some flavor and not too much more I think would work just fine.

It's usually easiest to do the perks/flaws on a point basis, rather than 1 for X basis...  but that's your call.  I like the idea of being able to nerf your own stats for extra goodness in the perk area, myself (or perks without any flaws).

42

Precursors / Money

« on: June 16, 2005, 10:19:08 pm »

Credits? dollars? gold coins? iridium ounces?

OK, so what we call it isn't too terribly important.

I'd like to talk about what it can buy, and how important it will be to a character.  Also of importance is banks, credit, lotteries, and real estate.

Oh yeah, and anything else to do with CASH.

As for what it can buy... I kinda imagine a universe where anything is for sale: planets, solar systems, moons, spaceships, technology, weapons, beer...  For the right price.  I'd like to see real estate being a real status symbol among players, (possibly real estate and bank accounts are common across characters?) and I'd also like to see to it that any character with enough money can buy real estate.  

Now, this entails some problems, mainly the characters that join early, and make a land rush, combined with characters that join late and don't get a chance to buy land.  Well, let others TAKE land, if they have the military might, and the takee doesn't have anything to back up his property claim.  Require some sort of development on the land within 30 days or the property reverts to an unowned status.  Continue to "find" new star systems, possibly offering naming to discovers, and a discount on purchasing wholesale land...

Banks should generate minor interest, and serve a real safegaurding function.  Unless all money is electronic, in which case, all money is in a bank anyway.  Credit lines should be available, and I personally think it'd be great to see a head contract going out on really bad debtors that went to disreputable banks just to get a huge loan they couldn't pay back in time...

Lotteries could work in a very real way: perhaps the cops fund thier operation through galaxy-wide lotteries in addition to charging for thier services, and skim off 50% of all ticket sales for themselves, the rest goes into a pot and every month a lucky winner is chosen at random?

I think that's all my ideas right now...  Let's hear yours!  (yes, you.)

43

Precursors / Player Creation

« on: June 16, 2005, 10:04:39 pm »

Even with those rules, people will just re-do their character creation until they have 2x18, 2x13, 2x9 (assuming 6 stats as in D&D).  I really think the only method that will work if we allow the players to see their exact numbers would be to use a point-based system, where every character gets X points to spend among their stats.  

What would you think about hiding the stats until at least 10 minutes of play-time have elapsed?  or 30?  that'd make it dauntingly hard to try to "beat the system" because it's random, but if you really don't get stats you like, then you'll know before you spend more than a half-hour playing that character.

and, the way I was proposing didn't have completely random stats, you'd just assign a set of ranges, the way you like it.  then you get a random number falling in that range.  If you want to be pretty sure what your stats are, choose the "even" setting, and the ranges are tight and close together -- you have a good idea exactly what your stats are, but don't have much in the way of a _possibly_ high stat, and if you're willing to chance it, choose "extreme" and get the possibility of having a really good stat, but also have to accept that it might not work out that way and you may get a really lously stat, and a only moderately high stat.

Besides, starting stats are only _really_ important in the early stages of the game, in a game where over time you can change your stats.

44

Precursors / Player Creation

« on: June 16, 2005, 06:03:43 pm »

Why let players know thier exact scores?  It isn't needed for anything but maximizing character abilities.  Just let them put thier priorities, and let the player know that they will be assigned any of a possible range of numbers, but they don't need to know exactly what numbers they got, until they start hitting maximums, at which point they've put far too much into a character to just re-make it to get better starting stats.

45

Precursors / Law Enforcement in the Galaxy

« on: June 16, 2005, 06:00:37 pm »

Hrm.  That could be really interesting.  Major plot-pushers that actually get seen around doing stuff...  I like it.

Back to death:  Here's what I see being discussed, just so sum up and have in one place the thoughts of everyone.

1) Death will be permanant.  Period.  Except for Dev (ine) intervention. <:o)
2) Death will be hard to come by -- people won't be super-tough or anything, but you have to actually do something pretty stupid to get killed, and it's going to be a risk that the players knowingly take, not something that happens randomly and often.
3) Players killing other players will also be pretty rare due to the massive penalities that will accrue in-game, just because of the society, not because of any special game-mechanics that suddenly make your character worse or something.
4) Realism is not before gameplay, but if done right, can be equally important.  We just need to have the right kind of society set up to allow the kinds of things we want.

46

Precursors / Working Together

« on: June 16, 2005, 12:10:19 am »

I'd agree that it shouldn't be that much of an issue.  I'd also agree that, done well, it could add _hugely_ to this game's value.  I don't want to see it being really needed at any point, but if the option was there, to set up a crew of a medium-size cruiser, fill the officers spots with real people...  Yes, I like that idea.

47

Precursors / Law Enforcement in the Galaxy

« on: June 16, 2005, 12:07:30 am »

to get back on topic, this is really the place to bring up "reputation." specifically, I think that if people commit murder, they should have to look out in civilized space from then on, because then they're in the computers as having an outstanding arrest warrant.  That should make people careful about killing others.

48

Suggestions / What should go into the next version?

« on: June 16, 2005, 12:04:55 am »

well... plasma = super hot gas, yes, but _something_ is keeping it all together in a ball, and I always figured on some sort of magnetic bubble around it, which is fairly realistic, but you'd have to actually shoot a device that maintains the containment, which might be fairly heavy.  The momentum will be proportional to the velocity, while the _energy_  would be proporitional to the velocity squared.

Now, for a plasma projectile, the damage isn't so much kenetic energy due to velocity, but rather due to the plasma.  well, so maybe you'd shoot it slowly, but then it'd be hard to hit something because of the lag time between shooting and it hitting (or missing).  So you'd still want to shoot it pretty fast.

Also, remember that we're shooting a LOT of things.  The momentum lost could add up.  Hell, it could help manuvering, if you include a weapon that fired a large weight at high speed at a right angle to the ship?  Get some quick lateral motion, but don't have to turn.  Limited ammo though...  mmm, the possibilities.

49

Precursors / Gameplay... and Death

« on: June 15, 2005, 11:56:37 pm »

Personally, I'm against the idea of the teleporation devices.  They seem too much like a cop-out.  If people are just going to respawn like in other games, then just let them respawn, and leave it at that.

Now, I think people should have to think about the risks involved in anything that they do.  Perhaps that's not something too often needed in a game, but we're trying to make a really realistic game, right?

I'd go for making ships pretty hard to blow up, but pretty easy to badly disable, so people only get killed if other people actually want them dead.  Also, people should get a reputation as a murderer if they do so -- with serious penalities in "civilized" space.

50

Precursors / Space Flight Controls, and Realism

« on: June 15, 2005, 11:49:18 pm »

oh yes.  Sounds like a good way to show off that extra bit of realism that people don't expect.

51

Precursors / Experience system

« on: June 15, 2005, 11:47:50 pm »

the function will still go towards infinity

Um, not all.  It's not going to be a really often used calculation (compared to the physics stuff, for example), so it should be ok to use a "hard" calculation like a logarithm...  Which does not approach infinity in the limit as time goes to infinity.  EG: if the max is 100 skill level, something like (new skill level)=(old skill level)+ln(101-old skill level).  that way, you gain skill quickly as you learn the ovbious things about said skill, but eventually, you just can't learn any more, when you are adding the ln(1)=0.

You can get more complicated than this, but this is a simple example of a function that will act as needed without a "hard limit", there is simply a point that the function does not go above, ever.

52

Precursors / Player Creation

« on: June 15, 2005, 11:29:52 pm »

I like it.  It allows people to change thier characters around from what they're given, but only if they really want to, because of the high cost.  I'd propose that increasing your highest stat costs even more, say it's a 3-1 trade there.

Maybe allow people to choose if thier character has "even" stats (almost all equal), or "normal" (fair range) or "extreme" (crazy highs and lows), and then put them to prioritizing them.  Even stats won't matter too much how you prioritize, but the others it would.  It would allow you to make a character that was a jack-of-all-trades, non-specialist, or a normal specialized person that can do ok but not good outside thier specialization, and they can make a person that's freakishly good at some things, but pretty terrible at anything that they dont specialize in.

53

Precursors / Gameplay... and Death

« on: June 14, 2005, 10:57:22 pm »

Ahhh.  hm.

I suppose it'd work as long as you enforced "your character is too low level to use this item" things.  or maybe only allow money to be lockboxed, possibly a small number of items?

I do appreciate the desire to make it realistic and not just number-shuffle.  I like it.  I think we should try to make it work, and stick with the realism that you're trying to put in the game.

54

Precursors / Law Enforcement in the Galaxy

« on: June 14, 2005, 10:52:46 pm »

Oh yes.  The people that run that are of space would have total say over if the common law should hold there.  But many places, especially areas with large civillian populations, probably will find it a much better idea to have common law that everyone knows and a common enforcer that everyone knows and fears, er, trusts, then to have to handle all that on thier own.  My vision of law enforcement was basically a bunch of mercenaries...  Apply with a big company to be an enforcer, and then you get a special paint job on your ship and armor, but you have to do patrols and answer dispatches, and generally uphold common law.  But the pay is good.  and women like men in uniform, or so I've heard.  Ok, maybe that's not such an issue in a game, but...

Basically, mercenaries work for a galactic enforcement corporation, who is in turn hired by many factions to safegaurd plantes and solar systems under the charter of this corporation, known as common law.  Other smaller, probably private enforcement operations exist for special needs of each faction, but they're much smaller because most of the major enforcement is aleady done.

55

Precursors / Experience system

« on: June 14, 2005, 10:44:32 pm »

Now, it's been a given that players will gain experience and gain levels and get better, like any RPG.  

I'd put forth two propositions:  1) experience is a linear sacle, every level you need 100 XP to advance, and so to make 50th level you need exactly 5000 XP.  This makes any XP transfer setup much more feasable.  Just make it so you get less XP based on the difference in levels between the character and the (to borrow a D&D term) challenge rating of the "baddie".  Add rules for multiple "baddies" and multiple people attacking.  Tada.  Ok, it's a little more complicated than that, but I think it's a good way to go.
2) um.  I may have frogotten 2.  OH YEAH!  no "hit point" or "endurance" or things like that increasing.  Make the person harder to hit or something on higher levels.  People don't magically get harder to kill as they get more experienced: just because you're good doesn't mean that you will take more shots to the chest to die, but it may mean that it's harder to hit you.
2.5) Maybe this makes items/armor particularly important? Well, in a war zone, don't you think that armor is going to be pretty important in real life?

Lets hear other people's thoughts on how advancement should work!

56

Precursors / Gameplay... and Death

« on: June 14, 2005, 10:36:34 pm »

I don't know about being able to co-sign on all assets.  that can turn a low-level into a powerhouse if the high-level character does something really stupid, and isn't much of a penalty.  I'd suggest <reasonable value>*(min of either character level).  That way, if you wanted a backup character, you'd really have to _play_ your backup character too, for the deposit box to mean much.  People will peobably want at least some experience to be able to transfer to an existing character/towards a new one.  maybe do 1/4 to an existing or 1/2 to a new one?  Actually, those values rais another question, but that begs a new thread.  just a second.

57

Suggestions / What should go into the next version?

« on: June 14, 2005, 10:30:10 pm »

That wasn't something that is really _needed_ for this next version, in my mind.  But before the end of your roadmap, this should be addressed.

58

Precursors / What is important to the users?

« on: June 14, 2005, 10:27:25 pm »

@whitelynx: yeah, I forgot what a big deal the planets were going to be...

@Reaka: I like your reasoning, but I think networking should go higher on the list because without it, it's going to be hard to test the game as it gets developed -- it's going to be a online-only game (single player is totally seperate, and will be done later, from what I read), so the ability to test how things work _online_ will be crucial to the testing process, after we can actually interact on some meaningful level (like, attack each other <;o)  ).  Also, I put the RTS later because it's a much different section, but there's no reason it shouldn't be worked on earlier.  Now that I think about it a little more, it may be good to have it earlier rather than later -- but I think AI will need to be done first, becaus you'll have a bunch of computer-controlled ships to order around, and so you'll need the computer to be able to control them, right?  

ALTHOUGH: I see in the future a bunch of pilots flying fighters that the RTS commanders are commanding around, followind orders of a co-ordinator, along with computer-controlled "fillers" for when there's a lack of pilots taking the jobs, fighting around a planet, and eventually troops get landed (mostly computer controlled and automated battles, but if people want to get a high paying job on the front lines where it's really easy to get killed if you don't have good armor (or a tank) then it will actually play out the battle) and then the battle is raging in FP mode, RTS mode and Ship mode, all at once, all interacting, all part of one single, coherent game.

Do let me know if that isn't the direction you are trying to push the game, so that I stop making suggestions about how best to push it towards that path...

59

Precursors / Law Enforcement in the Galaxy

« on: June 14, 2005, 10:09:09 pm »

actual law enforcement could be a little different, but maybe simply have some large sections of planets (major cities, spaceports, etc) and maybe some entire systems (this is going to be much more subject to the lag-time you were talking about) under a "common law" that is much simpler than the more involved law-enforcement.  EG: don't shoot someone who isn't currently carrying a gun in thier hand and no shooting at ships that don't have thier weapons systems powered up.  That could be the extent of common law, and anything beyond that was up to the authorities of various planets.  Of course, this may be easier with some sort of galactic police force (galpol? ok, ok, bad name, i know.) that did simple such law enforcement, and various factions had thier own ideas about law enforcement, and would have the option of having galpol in thier space, for a suitable fee.  that way, they don't have to do much policeing, and the galaxy is much safer, in certian areas.

Oh yeah, and the fees should be high (not actually player seen or game-affecting), and the cops should have really, really big guns <:o)

60

Precursors / Gameplay... and Death

« on: June 14, 2005, 10:00:52 pm »

I'd make death hard to acheive, if you're not really stupid, yet permanant.  half-levels sounds good, maybe 3/4 would be a little more lenient.

Allow an option to have your character die permenantly, but can apply 3/4 of levels gained to new character, or die and get restored, but only at 1/2 levels, yet you get to keep some of your stuff? (only what you were wearing and money? minus what you were wearing?)

then again, I've never really played an MMORPG, with or without permanant death, so I might not be the best informed.