Topics

141

Precursors / Capital Ship Movement

« on: August 31, 2005, 01:25:16 pm »

I decided to post a copy from our current wiki about Capital Ship Movement control. Dave and I worked everything out. and I think the idea will me *much* more intuitive... but I wanted opinions from the forumites.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Capital Ship Control Design Doc

There are two different styles of Capital Ship Movement, AutoNav and Manual. They both are equally functional, and both use the same underlying movement system, but the interfaces are both pretty different.

AutoNav

AutoNav mode allows you to select a point in 3D space, much like Homeworld. You move your mouse in the XY Plane, and when you hold the shift key, it locks XY movement, and allows for Z-axis movement. When you release, it locks the Z axis, and allows for XY movement again. Once you select that point, your ship will orient itself properly to go to that point. If you hold the control key, a representation of the ship will be shown at the last point selected, allowing you to set the orientation of the ship when it reaches that point. Holding control will allow you to set the yaw, and control+shift will allow you to set the pitch at the destination. Instead, if you right click, you can specify as many points as you want, building a path for your ship to follow. (Note: The AI is rather conservative, and will avoid objects by a safe margin. Also, you can't specify points on the surface of or inside solid objects.)

Manual

Manual mode is the Capital Ship version of the Fighter movement style. It gives complete control to the pilot, allowing for much more advanced manuevers than AutoNav. It uses the same system for pitch and yaw as AutoNav but only allows for one point to be selected. It provides control for roll, and sideslip.

Movement/Targeting

It is important to note that constantly being in Movement Mode (regardless of which) could be rather distracting (visually) and rather annoying (from a gameplay perspective). Also, one would like to be able to target other ships, and possibly even engage in combat. So, there should be a key to toggle between Targeting mode and Movement mode.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, what do you all think?

142

General Discussion / Introduction Thread: New users, please post here!

« on: August 06, 2005, 10:40:58 pm »

Well, I see that we have a bunch of new people who've joined. However, most haven't posted yet, so to break the ice, I figured I'd make a Introduction thread, so new users can introduce themselves, and possibly even tell us where they heard about the site, what they think, and somehting about themselves.

Me, I'm the story behind the game, and the guy who's trying to hold it all together... not that I mind. It's fun, and the kind of thing I'm good at. I'm pretty friendly, and I like answering questions, so please, feel free to ask.

Welcome to the forums, and please, remember that we want to hear from everyone! Please, post! :-D

--Chris

143

Precursors / Mulitple Star Systems, Subspace, and Navigation.

« on: July 27, 2005, 11:21:11 am »

Something I want to put into the app in the very near future, is more than one starsystem. I actually want to have stars, with planets orbiting them, and all that fun stuff. Right now, making planets is going to be more than we want to tackle right now, so I figure a textured sphere would work as a placeholder. I have an idea about how to make suns, but I'll put that in another thread.

What we need to tackle, from a conceptual/design stand point (no code for a while yet, I would think) is how we want to handle travel between starsystems. As we all know it'd take years and years and years to even reach the closests solarsystem to our own... conventionally. So, in the game, and my story I use the concept of subspace to 'cheat'.

I've done some decent research on it, and, the basic principal is that the ship is bending space and time, creating a wormhole into the fourth spacial dimension. (If you would like a better description of how it's possible to move faster in the fourth dimension than the third dimension... I'd be happy to explain in a seperate thread.)

Now, to the design part. Subspace itself is going to be interesting... I imagine that it'll be pretty featureless.... however what we do see will be confusing to us. (Since we can only see a 3d representation of 4d space) So, how about we cop out, and just have an undulating cloud, of like blue and black. (Kinda like this, or this, only blue.)

When a ship enters subspace, I imagine an oblate spheroid (egg shape) of energy that surrounds the ship, distorts it, and eventually, fades out (rather quickly) into nothingness, when the ship enters the wormhole into subspace.

Now that we have that described, we need to figure out the game play part of it. For now, I say that we just have the ship moving through subspace (without the user's input affecting it) for whatever length of time it would take to get there.... unless people have a large problem with that. (since if we make it next to instant, the screws with time syncing betwee n players, and places.)

Deciding where you're going I think should be as simple, as bringin up a systems map. (which I imagine would be loaded into all ships by default) The map would show where you are, and have little cirlces, or something indicating other starsystems. (it will onlt show the ones we've modeled.. which will be the 'most common' systems you want to go to.) when you click on a system, the map will change, and show the system, so you can pick which planet you're going to (the navigational systems will drop you out as close as possible, and set an autopilot course for that planet), or where in the system you want to come out. It will also indicate places you *don't* want to come out (like too close to anything, since subspace has a nasty habit of sending out localized gravitational shockwaves when you exit it.) Those places will be shown as yellow, (you will damage that object) orange (you will damage yourself and the object.) and red (it will kill you.) The map will also give you basic info of each planet, if you click on it.

Here's the problem... aside from defining entry point into the system (which we could do), how do we allow the player to decide where they want to be when they exit? Do we have a grid based system, and they just click on it, or what? What would make the most sense?

Well, that's all I have for now, I'll likely post latter (after breakfast). Discuss amongst yourselves.

--Chris

144

Bug Reports / Bug Reports For v0.3.1 alpha

« on: July 24, 2005, 10:48:55 am »

Well, it's that time again... we need to start listing all the bugs we can find, and squishing them till they go away. Here's the list so far:

The Bug List:[/u]

(Reported by Piotr Obrzut)
o Spaceship sometimes disapears (mostly after flying in darkness after hitting an asteroid)
It's quite possible that the camera can't keep up with the mesh for some reason... the mesh is moving too fast, and in one frame, the mesh is moving much rather than the camera. (perhaps we should take a look at how we're updating the camera position)[/i]

(Reported by Piotr Obrzut)
o Sometimes shooting doesn't stop after a mouse click
This is because we sometimes don't recieve a button up event from the mouse. (Instead it's sending a button click event) This is a CS problem, and we'll try to figure it out soon.[/i]

o Sometimes setting anything but the default video mode crashes the game.
We have no idea why this is. It works fine for all CS/CEL applications, but ours.[/i]

o Entities are never truly deleted.
This bug has been biting our asses for a while now. More work will be done on it.... eventually.[/i]

More to come, I assure you!

--Chris

145

Precursors / Character Creation, Races, and Professions.

« on: July 22, 2005, 01:30:19 pm »

Right now I'm not sure about most of the terms I'm going to be using here, but the concepts and the ideas are what's important.

When a user goes to create a character, what's the process going to be like? I've been asking myself this question for a while, and I decided I should answer it myself, and see what you think.

The first thing a user needs to do, is pick thier race. I've decided that we're goign to have more than Humans, but what ones we're going to have, I'm not sure of. However, let's assume that we have more than one option here.

After a user picks thier race, they needs to pick thier appearance. I would like the ability to add tattos, change eye colors, pick from a few sets of heads, arms, legs, etc... and the option to choose to be missing certain body parts... (like no left hand, no left eye, no right leg... w/e.)

After they've done that, and picked out a basic outfit, they need to pick a profession. The player should have this figured out before they pick thier appearance, so maybe we want to change the order, and put this before appearance, but we'll decide that latter. however picking thier profession also determins what factions they can be members of.  Here's the list I can think of, with the possible factions attatched. (Note, *RaceX* is a race who's name I've not decided, but they're going to be a *small* power that minds it's own buisness, and doesn't bother the Terrans, or the League.)

o Military (Terran, League, *RaceX*)
o Mercinary (Freelance,Pirate)
o Smuggler (Freelance, Pirate)
o Trader (All)
o Civilian (All)
o Pirate (Freelance, Pirate) ***

*** (Seems odd, having the 'Profesion' Pirate have the option having of being of in the faction 'Pirate', however that faction is really going to be a list of different pirate groups... where as you can be a freelance pirate and create your own pirate faction.)

Now, each of these professions would have 'specializations' that are like sub professions. For example:

o Military

- Army

x Sniper


x Tank Commando


x (etc.)

- Navy

x Fighter Pilot


x Starship Captain


x (etc.)

Now, don't get confuse... 'Navy' isn't a specialization... it's just for organizational purposes, making the specializations easier to find.

After this, the player would change thier stats, and then decide thier home planet, and starting planet (Or base). Pretty simple, I think.

--Chris

146

General Announcements / Precursors v0.3.1 alpha Released

« on: July 21, 2005, 06:17:19 pm »

Today marks the second time since we started this project that we've done a release. This release is what the previous one should have been. It has taken hundreds of hours to get from 0.3 to here, and it will take hundreds more for our next release. However, as head of this project, I know that the team I'm working with is more than willing to do what it takes to get Precursors to a final release. I have the privlege and honor of working with two brilliant programmers, one of whom has only recently joined. As you take a look at what we've been doing, keep in mind that the credit goes to them, for all the hard work they've put into this.

This release is almost a complete rewrite of the previous version. We've rewritten atleast two thirds of the code we had before, to make it better, faster, and more stable. We have worked hard to improve controls, and even though there aren't any new features, we're now ready to put those in. I take great pride in what we've done so far, and I promise you that before the end of september, we will have a thrid release that will include a GUI, Networking, and combat. (That's the goal). Please, tell your friends about us, and try to get as many people on the forums as possible. Right now we're willing to take on new developers, or other people who want to contribute. We won't promise a dev spot to anyone, but we're open to expanding our team.

A side note. Right now there's only a linux version up. The windows version will be added tonight, with any luck. Thank you all for staying with us, and I hope you all bring more people into the community we're building.

--Chris

P.S. I will post later with a list of controls, and an update when the windows version is uploaded.

147

Precursors / Uber-Tuff DoomSender Anti-Capital Ship Pistol [and others]

« on: July 12, 2005, 11:41:11 pm »

I want this as an easter egg, or something to make people laugh... including random appearances of things like a Super Star Destroyer, or a Borg Cube, or somthing..... (imagine, a player's flying along, and borg cube suddenly appears, and sends out the standard 'We are the Borg. Resistance is futile." message, shoots the player up, and then suddenly a fleet of federation ships shows up, and starts attacking them.. the player escapes, tells everyone, "OMG OMG! I just escaped the BORG! Come, look in System Wolf 359!" People show up there, and there's nothing. No sign of anything... (except maybe a single starfleet phaser, or combadge)

Yeah, I like messing with people.

Oh, and about the UTDSACP... I'd like to make it rediculously huge..... :-D
(Since it'd be an easter egg, balancing it isn't a problem... it'd be under our control.)

So, thoughts? (I also want 'guest' appearance of things like the Swordfish from Cowboy beebop, and other anime ships. Most non-hostile, and all controlled by people I trust not to abuse any sort of 'fun' things I add to them )

--Chris

148

Precursors / New HUD in Development

« on: July 11, 2005, 07:52:51 pm »

Hey, it's me again... I'm working on the New, Improved HUD for the game. The current one, however versitile it is (with resolution changes)... it's not done int the style I'm planning on doing the GUI in for the game... and I don't like it as much. So, I figured I'd show you a "Work-In-Progress HUD"...

Here it is: (Warning, it's 800x600)




The bottom isn't done, as I'm sure you can tell. I plan on making it resemble the current one...

--Chris

149

Precursors / Precursors Icon

« on: July 11, 2005, 07:28:06 pm »

I've made a couple icons for the game, and now it's time to get people to choose one.... and we'll decide. (Right now, if no one vote's, it'll be number 10.) Also, I know there's a good many repeats (with only slight modifications), and only #10 had a different boarder... if you would like too see sligh modifications, I'll update the choices... These are just the ones I've done today... my goal wasn't for ten distinct ones, more like ten revisions one one icon. I just figured I'd post them all here, and see what you thought.

Choices:

Icon 1:

Icon 2:

Icon 3:

Icon 4:

Icon 5:

Icon 6:

Icon 7:

Icon 8:

Icon 9:

Icon 10:

There are your choices, happy voting!

--Chris

150

General Announcements / RakNet Networking Library License

« on: July 09, 2005, 11:42:42 am »

Just figured I'd drop a line to the general forums, and inform everyone that we just recieved a free license for RakNet, a feature complete networking library. (http://www.rakkarsoft.com/) Besides the fact that it supports peer to peer and client server style networking, it also has voicechat built in! (And the quality is amaxing, let me assure you.)

Now, it will be a while before we see networking in precursors. The reasons are that right now, our app is one application... there is no client or server. We need to make a split, and work on the logic behind that split. This will take some time, but that's ok.

Also, another hurdle we need to jump over is writting a wrapper for RakNet. This wrapper will allow it to communicate with CEL, which is inportant, because all out game entities are CEL objects. That will take even more time, not because of complexity, but because Dave (whitelynx) will have to do it (most likely), and he's busy working a job 5 days a week, doing coding. However we'll keep plodding along, and get the job done, as always. Look for a new version (mostly bugfixes, and a major internal structure redesign) soon, and comabt w/ networking to ocme inside the next two releases after that. (Bet around december, or January. Maybe sooner)

We thank you for sticking around, and showing interest. We'll try to push things as fast as humanly possible... and get you something you can actually play soon.

--Chris

151

General Announcements / Precursors IRC Channel (Location Changed!!)

« on: July 04, 2005, 09:54:25 pm »

For those of you not in the know, we have an IRC channel:

#svnprecursors on irc.freenode.net

Feel free to come hang out, and talk, and stuff.

Note: There is a really good IRC client free for windows (XChat):

http://www.silverex.org/news/

--Chris

152

Precursors / Burning desire for a new feature?

« on: July 04, 2005, 10:40:13 am »

Well, Dave, Myself, and contingengyplan are hard at work on the next release version: 0.3.2, and 99% of what we're doing is basically bugfixes, and internal stuff, (which will hopefully make it more stable/usable in the long run). However, I'd like to throw in one thing that's new in this version that stands out... some new feature. However I figured I'd leave it up to the ppl on the forums to decide what feature should be in there. So, What do you want? (make suggestions, and I'll put a poll up after I get a few).

--Chris

153

Precursors / Races

« on: June 26, 2005, 02:47:12 pm »

Recently, I've been re-thinking a good deal of how things work in this universe of mine, and I'm trying to make eveyrthing feel like it fits... well, inorder to do that, I've been talking to Reaka. She hit on a good point, asking my why there's not other races besides the sooni, and the Grey? (I've also decided to tunr the Overseers into the Grey's legislative body... I'll update the races sticky thread once I decide how I'm making it all work.)

So, the question is, should I have other races? I don't want many if I have more at all... Like one or two. I'm not sure. What do you think? (Keep in mind, these races will be playable by the players in the game)

--Chris

154

Precursors / Recent Sticky Posts

« on: June 25, 2005, 08:44:12 pm »

I know some of the recent Posts I've written (and stickied) aren't done yet (they will be soon). However, I've seen no feed back. You do know it's ok to post on those, right? What do you guys think of my ideas? They're not set in stone, and I'd like feed back. Give me some .


--Chris

155

Precursors / The Seventh Game: Tech Brief

« on: June 23, 2005, 01:02:46 pm »

Technology:

Propulsion:

Normal Space:

Most normal space travel is done with Ion Engines. The principle is pretty simple: Use magnets to throw hydrogen nuclei out at near light speeds. Basically, it's a really simple system, but it uses quite a bit of power. (No, they are in no way generators, unlike most scifi. Personally, I think having engines generate anything other than thrust is a stupid idea.)

Subspace:

Faster than light travel is, as we know, impossible. So, the trick isn't to travel faster than light. Instead, Ships move through 'subspace' which is a fancy name for moving in the fourth dimension. The basic principle can be explained this way:

Take a piece of paper, and draw a stick figure on it. Now, bend the paper into a U-shape. If the person were to move across the paper, it would take them a while to. However, if you pick them up, and move them in the third dimension, and it takes less time. Now, with subspace it's the same way, except that there's the combined effect of being able to 'crumble' space time (contract in front of you, and expand behind you) that give an effect of moving faster.

In Subspace, gravitational 'eddies' and mass 'shadows' exist. The forth dimension is the one where gravity 'lives' (as much as light 'lives' in a higher dimension), so changes in gravity cause vast sweeping changes in subspace, and vice versa. Orriginally, it was thought that subspace could be used as a weapon, one that could destroy planets, and end the war quickly, but the problem is that it's impossible to predict how changes in subspace will affect normal space, and it's even possible to create a gravitational wave that travels billions of lightyears, destroying everything in its path. (insert testing horror stories I haven't written here.)

Your 'speed' in subspace depends on you 'depth'. Basically, the farther removed from normal space you are (the deeper in subspace) the faster you travel. However, the deeper you are, the more the gravitational eddies take hold, and the more subspace tries to crush your ship.

Entering subspace involves the precise bending of gravity to create a wormhole of sorts to enter subspace. If your subspace field collapses while in subspace, you are violently thrown back into normal space. Also, it's possible to get stuck in 'limbo' (simultaneously entering and exiting subspace) which causes horrible gravitational shockwaves and turns your ship into a singularity. (a.k.a. a "black hole")

Metaphasic:

Metaphasic technology is, simply put, the best thing since sliced bread. It's also next to impossible, and no one even knows it exists, except the handful of researchers who created it. The theory is "simple": Use two subspace drives to allow a ship to remain in limbo, collect the tacheon particles that form up in between the subspace fields, and focus them to form a wormhole into 'hyperspace' or the 11th dimension if you prefer. You pop into hyperspace, and then exit into subspace again... but this time in a new place, instaneously.

The downside is that it takes great power, two complete subspace drives, and you need exit coordinates. What really sucks is that the only way to get those coordinates is to enter hyperspace, and take a look. (you can get your coordinates, and that of your surrounding area pretty easily, but you can't predict the hyperspace coordinates of the planet a few million kilometers from you. You need to go there and take another look. It has something to do with quantum mechanics.)

Right now, there is only a handful of ships whice can handle the stresses of metaphasic travel, and even fewer that have all the technology required to find coordinates. Basically, it's travel that exists in theory, and has worked a handful of times in practice by black projects conducted by the League.

156

Precursors / The Seventh Game: Races

« on: June 22, 2005, 07:07:45 pm »

[EDIT:] REMOVED: Out of Date!. [/EDIT]

So, here is the link:

Races Overview

157

Precursors / Gameplay... and Death

« on: June 14, 2005, 08:53:50 pm »

So, how should we handle death, (as well as basic gameplay)?

Personally, I think that death should be permanant.... Then again.. if this is an RPG.. we need something like levels... (are they going to be visable to the user, or not?)... and at death, you should get like half your previous level that you can put into as many new characters as you choose. (aka, if my 100 lvl guy dies, and I decide I want to make two new characters, I can make them both lvl 25, or make one 10 and the other 40.)


What do you guys think?

Oh, and forgive the rambling nature of that post... I'm in a rambling mood.

158

Precursors / What is important to the users?

« on: June 07, 2005, 12:51:22 am »

Right now, as head of the project, I'm feeling a bit out to see as far as what to get done during the summer. There are quite a few things we could implement... and most of them are about equal on my list of importance, so I figured I'd ask you all what you think we should get done this summer. Here's the list:

1) Systems - This is ship systems. This would mean that the performance of your ship is based on these systems, which can take damage, and also have reliabilities to them. Basically, it needs to go in for combat, and it also makes it possible to start developing the ways the user interacts with things like systems (as in how to repair them, etc.)

2) Damage - The ability for systems to take damge. Pretty simple... but requires Systems.

3) Combat - Just like the name implies. This would be ship to ship combat.

4) Planets - The ability to land on planets. This requires a good deal of work... like writing the fluid thrusters for the mechanics system.. aka writing more API for the mechanics plugin for CEL, and doing more work to get out app to talk to the physics engine. Then, we'd have to get LOD working, and make the planet itself...

5) Artificial Intelligence - Basically opponents for players to fight. Could be simple, could be complex. Depends on what's wanted for now.

6) GUI - Implement an entire GUI system for the game (aside form the HUD). We'd do it with SVG graphics, but that requires us to write an SVG loader/render for CS. Possibly even an SVG windowing system. Tricky stuff.

7) Stability - Another thing would be simply focusing on cleaning everything up so that most of the bugs are gone, and that what's currently there works flawlessly... although not much fun, it would make it more stable.

8) Polish - Clean up the graphics. Make everything look amazingly cool, with awesome textures, and insane looking shaders (hell, any shaders would be a start). Also optimize it as much as possible to get the most FPS we can out of it.

9) First-Person work - Right now we've ditched FP mode in our game in favor of Flightsim. We really should go back and implement some of the things we wanted to do in Flightsim in FP as well. Hell, it doesn't even use the mechanics plugin yet.

10) Real-Time Strategy / Captital Ship - We could also start the next mode... which is like RTS. Basically, it would alow you to control more than one capital ships at a time.... like a fleet. I think we should start calling it 'Fleet mode' instead of RTS.. Oh, and about captial ships... they fly differently from fighters (which is the flying style we currently have) so they require a different way of controlling them. (If anyone's ever played StarFleet Command... we're thinking of doing something like this.) We could also impliment that at the same time as RTS (or before.)

11) Networking - This could be p2p, server/client, or a mix. We're thinking of using RakkNet. (can't find the link right now...)

So, any other ideas? Any other suggestions? We can work on more than one at a time.. and I can draw up a To-Do list from the suggestions, and update it for what's currently finished when it get completed. (maybe make a sticky thread, and update it as out ToDo list changes.. so you always know what we're doing. Anyone like this idea?)

Also, I personally vote: 1,2,3,11 and then:5,7,6 as time allows.

--Chris

159

Precursors / Precursors FAQ

« on: May 16, 2005, 06:59:58 pm »

This is the official FAQ. Check back as it's updated, corrected, or as things change.


Q: Where is the source code?

A: It's here: svn://kashmir.g33xnexus.com/precursors/source/trunk (Just check that out using subversion.)


Q: What if I want to contribute?

A: Talk to the head of the department you want to contribute to. You can find a list of the departments and team members at the Precursors Team page. If we like you, and think that you can be of help, we'll talk.


Q: Why more than one game mode?

A: That's my fault. I think that only by having more than one mode can you make a game as dynamic as what we want Precursors to be. Also, it's never been done before (near as we can tell).


Q: Doesn't that make it harder?

A: Yes, it does. We don't care, we think it's going to be awesome. If we find out we can't do it, we'll scrap the idea. Until then, we're keeping it.


Q: Does this game have a single-player mode?

A: Not currently. A single-player companion game is planned, but the MMORPG portion will be finished before that is. To help keep people from getting confused, the single-player game will be story driven, and won't work like the MMORPG. It will be more like Half-Life's single player mode.


Q: What libraries/tools are you using to develop this game?

A: We're using Crystal Space with CEL as our game engine, and using ODE as our physics engine. The game is compiled with GCC, and we don't use an IDE (we prefer using gvim). We're also using RakNet and CEGUI.


Q: What operating system(s) will this game support?

A: The game will support Windows, Linux, and Mac OSX. It's possible we can support other OS's, if we have a machine to compile binaries on for that platform. (and given that platform is supported by Crystal Space; see this page to determine if your platform can be supported.)

There will be more questions coming as I have time, and issues arise.

--Chris

160

General Announcements / Release Roadmap: v0.3.1 - 0.4.0

« on: May 10, 2005, 04:34:14 pm »

Here is the release roadmap, as we curretly see it:

v0.3.1 (Released 2005-07-23)

• Complete rewrite of Mechanics System, and thrusters, as well as default Ares thurster layout. [DONE]
• Fix projectile removal. [PARTIALLY DONE]
• Complete backend rewrite (increase stability). [DONE]
• Controls to be changed to something more flyable. [DONE]

v0.3.2

• Networking [ALMOST DONE]
• Starfield/space dust added to map
• BugFixes [PARTIALLY DONE]

v0.4.0

• Ship Systems implimentation [STARTED]
• System Damage implimentation
• Combat system finialized and implimented
• Menu/GUI

Now, everything here is just our current guess, and some things might end up being postponed, or moved up. If you have any suggestions on anything, let us know!