G33X Nexus Entertainment > Precursors

RTS / FPS aspect, with comments on AI

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Morgul:
Ok, I have some major thoughts on this. Unless I have some large holes pointed out to me that I can't see, this is kinda the way I want it... (I'm open to having my mind changed, though)


There are two possible systems of command, both different, but workable.

Military Style Command

In the military, you're not asked to do a job, you're ordered to do it. So, Commanders will be given X ships, Y troops, and X equipment (including support ships, etc.) In deciding who's AI and who's player... we do it like the military. Whatever 'unit' (as in rougue squadron, not as in a single player) is the best suited to a mission will be assigned... or whatever's available. That Unit will be made up of whatever players have been assigned to is, and the rest will be AI. The players will each have whatever role has been assigned to them in the unit... on player may have decided to train as a sniper, and hece is the person the commander will use when he needs a sniper. It's up to the commander to decide who to send to do what. He should know (atleast some) of the troops, having worked with them before. Even hif he doesn't, basic stats will be easily accessable.... so he can make an iformed decision. I'm not decided if he will know who's AI, and who's player... depends on how good the AI is, really. However that will be reflected in it's stats, I would assume.

Equipment is assigned to the players. They mostlikely will not 'own' much of anything, it will all be provided. IF a player would like to purchase a certain piece of equipment, I assume it's possible, but they will still be given the choice of whatever's provided.

Mercenary  Style

With mercinaries, things are a bit different. The commander will most likely be given whatever his 'customer' provides, along with his own people. Here, he will post a 'job request' if one of his own people doesn't fit the bill. It will list the equipment provided, and the equipment *not* provided, along with the payment. Whatever player wants to take the job can, but the Commander can reject someone if he chooses. The commander decides how long a job posting is open... if he needs someone, and no one's accepted, he can choose to 'buy' another merc from an available pool (read: random AI mercs). Everythign else will be like the military style.

Equipment on the other hand will mostly be personal for all mercs involved in the operation. Merc armies will most likely be much smaller, and limited in resources, so personal weapons, and ships will be a must. That also means they can be outfitted as players see fit. I can see a good number of people pefering the Merc style, as there's more freedom to play as you want. However, if you crash your fighter, you've gotta foot the bill....

Also, medical care is much more... ahem... shady in the Merc style. Bandage your own damn arm.

--Chris

fehknt:
Why not both?  If you're fighting for a faction that has an army, then military style fits the bill.  If you're  fighting for a faction that has a war to fight, and cash to spend, but no army of thier own, then they hire out.

In general, the big factions have thier own troops (and perhaps they will request you to become a general for them after proving yourself on the ground, unless you've screwed up fot them in the past as a general), and the small ones outsource to whoever fits the bill (maybe needs at least one victory under thier belt in order to qualify, or more) and you're given certian amounts of money to spend on hiring troops and purchasing equipment.  If the troops are specialty (snipers, commandos, etc) they probably have thier own equipment, and thier cost is higher, not to mention that they have a real skill to sell too, and so are going to cost more for that reason.

Morgul:

--- Quote from: "fehknt" ---Why not both?  If you're fighting for a faction that has an army, then military style fits the bill.  If you're  fighting for a faction that has a war to fight, and cash to spend, but no army of thier own, then they hire out.[...]
--- End quote ---


Ok, I think I'm missing something here.... isn't that what I was proposing? If you're a member of any military, you won't be working freelance, you'll be working for them.... if they order you to go help, chances are they will send thier own troops (along with you) to go fight, so the military style still applies. If you're a mecinary, you will be fighting in the mercinary style, regardless of who you're fighting for....

Now, a word about cost.  People working for a large military will get paid whatever the military pays people of thier rank. (ranks work just like normal military ranks... you don't become a general 'per battle', instead you're a general, who gets assigned battles) That means that all 'units' will have a certain cost, which the commander doesn't care about (money will be kept track of, and the commander will be bothered if there's something to worry about, like low funds)

If you're a merc, you care about the cost. (it comes out of your profit) I'm not sure how to work the unit costs (since mercs generally don't work for fixed rates... do they?)  

Now, resorces are another thing to think about.. having tones of money doesn't mean you have a ton of guns... you *could* if you buy them. What you outfit your people with will be dependant on what's available, and what can be bought. However, ammunition, guns, and other weapons aren't unlimited like in most RTS.


--Chris

contingencyplan:
Here's my ideas for the RTS command aspect:


--- Quote from: "morgul" ---Equipment is assigned to the players. They mostlikely will not 'own' much of anything, it will all be provided.
--- End quote ---


The immediate problem I see with this is lack of customizability.  One of the things that makes MMOGs successful (IMO) is the ability for Players to customize their characters as much as they want.  This goes beyond simple changes like hair and eye color - they will want to modify their equipment loadout as much as possible.  If Players aren't given that option, then they will all become mercs, and few if any will join the factions' militaries.

The reason Players like to customize their equipment is twofold: 1) They may be naturally good at something (e.g., sniping); and 2) The status symbol.  If you see somebody walking around, toting the DeadEye sniper rifle (one of the best ones out there of both legal and black-market rifles), then you know that Player is good to be able to afford it.

However, we have to mix this with the military-style control aspect.  The Commander may want or need a particular kind of soldier on the battlefield.  If we have everybody running around as snipers, then we're in trouble.  Thus, here's what I would propose for the military-based aspect:

Let's say our Player trains as a sniper. When they finish the training, he (or she, of course) is given the basic sniper rifle and other entry-level equipment.  The Player is then sent into the battlefield as a sniper with this basic equipment.  As they gain experience (in general, not talking about Exp here) and skill (again, in general), they will gain access to higher-level equipment (e.g,. the DeadEye rifle) for their particular faction.  They will essentially "own" this equipment - it will be in their inventory.  However, they don't "buy" it, since it's part of the military's equipment.  They simply choose what they want out of the equipment list they can access.

Now, when a Commander is given our Player, the Commander has to decide what to do with them. If they don't have any need for a sniper, then the Commander can put our Player to use in another area, though the Player is obiously not going to perform as well in the area, since it's outside of his expertise.  If the Commander wants a sniper, but needs for the Player to use a different weapon, then the Commander can give the Player that weapon.  If necessary, the Commander can override the clearance for the Player to give him access to a higher-level weapon.  At the end of the battle, the Commander can make this change permanent, or can revoke it and place the Player back at their original equipment clearence.  In any event, thought, the Commander should have a good reason for changing the Player's equipment loadout. If the Player is part of a particular squad, then the Commander might have to clear it with the Player's Squad Leader first, or something like that.

Alternately, the Commander could request certain soldier types for the coming battle, and they receive that exact set.  If they don't request a sniper, then our Player gets assigned somewhere else.  The Commander might alternately request certain squads, and receive all the soldiers in that particular squad.

As far as the AI is concerned, if the Commander is using an NPC soldier, then the NPC is given the default loadout for the current choice; the Commander can customize this equipment as much as is needed.

So how does this differ from the setup that Chris is proposing?  Well, it differs in the following ways:
[*] Players can choose their loadout from the equipment available, based on faction and equipment clearance, rather than having it always be assigned by the current Commander.
[*] Commanders should stick with the Player's current loadout except in exceptional cases.  If we can find some way to enforce this, all the better.
[/list]


--- Quote from: "morgul" ---Now, resorces are another thing to think about.. having tones of money doesn't mean you have a ton of guns... you *could* if you buy them. What you outfit your people with will be dependant on what's available, and what can be bought. However, ammunition, guns, and other weapons aren't unlimited like in most RTS.
--- End quote ---


Agreed. However, the Commander might be able to mine resources from the current planet and refine them at the base. Then, s/he could take those refined resources and manufacture weapons on-site.  If the Commander can't build a particular weapon (either due to lack of resources or due to lack of manufacturing capability - the plant can't build everything), then they can send for it.

One major difference in the two systems would be this: the military would require a lot more planning, since they can't just buy whatever they need.  They have to manufacture it somewhere, either at their base or on another planet.  Thus, the better they plan it out, the more stuff they have when the battle starts, rather than having to wait for the equipment to come from somewhere else.  Furthermore, the supply line would be important as well - if conditions change, then the Commander needs to be able to send for more or different equipment and soldiers. Thus, space battles could play a tremendous role in a battle on the surface of a planet - if the Commander loses his supply line through space, then he's on his own until those lines re-open (or he loses the battle).

Mercs, on the other hand, depend more on money and buying equipment from suppliers.  They have to plan, but their organizations are too small to really maintain manufacturing plants on multiple planets. Thus, they are useful in small situations, where they can buy equipment to suit their needs, and can do so readily and on-the-fly.  There's nothing to say that the supplier couldn't be the military the merc is working with, or whoever else they're working for, but they are more concerned with buying stuff when situations change than with having to plan out the battle beforehand and keep supplies coming.

Anyways, those are my ideas for right now.
~Brian

Morgul:
Hmm. I do like your ideas about sutom loadouts for players. I'm sure in this day and age, it would be possible for sdoldier to requisition different equipment to suit thier needs. It makes a good deal of sense, and allows for the smae gameplay as the mercs, but in a very different environment.

Now, as far as manufacturing things, I highly doubt that for every battle militaries will being a portable manufacturing plant, or that every planet will have the raw materials they need... However it would be stupid not to have the ability when needed... but the manufactuing plant would have to either be brought and installed before hand, or it would have to be shipped... and set up durring battle... which might take some real effort. I doubt it'd be a standard thing.

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